4.6 Championing 2 - Problems
Isn’t it awfully cheeky to talk to someone about their behavior and ask them to change?
At the very least it’s a challenging thing to do. And it can easily go wrong. Sometimes very wrong. The advocacy approach gives you your best chance to make conversations about problems go well.
How do people react when their supervisor comes to them to talk about a problem they’re having at work? Most people pull back, maybe shrink a little, because they’re thinking this is a correction, and correction so easily triggers feelings of…
Shame and blame.
Which are…
Relationship killers.
But you want…
Connection instead of correction.
And if you’re demonstrative and unmistakable in taking the advocacy approach, that gives you your best chance of turning the interaction into…
A development conversation.
Which is a conversation…
About possibility even though it begins with a problem.
A staff person who feels herself to be the target of a correction is likely to put up her guard and resist.
But if she feels you to be her advocate, really feels it, then she’s likely to…
Drop her guard and engage.
She’s likely to want to work with you to make the conversation be a success.
The more you practice the advocacy stand, the more proficient you get, but what if right now, you’re just starting out with it? What if having forthright conversations with staff about problem areas seems kind of daunting?
Here are some tips I hope will help…
1. Use your advocacy talents.
As you read about the advocacy approach, please keep paying attention to how much you already know about this. Think about ways it already shows up in your life, maybe in relationships outside of work. Or maybe you’re shy about direct conversations, but in your best moments you’ve had some that really worked well. Remember those. Claim the strengths you have already and call on them as you move forward.
2. Focus on your own needs.
If you are preparing for a conversation, you come first. This means take whatever time you need to get yourself settled and clear. Sometimes by the time we get around to talking with someone about a problem, we’re pretty frustrated with them. Or even angry.
But it doesn’t help to carry those feelings into the conversation. They will undermine the mood of advocacy. So do what you need to do. Write in your journal. Talk to your HR person. Talk to a coach. Talk to a friend. Think about who can help you get clear.
And don’t stint on the time. You may have a ton of things on your to-do list, but this is not just about a one-off conversation. What’s at stake here is a relationship. It matters that you take the time you need to do it right.
There have been times when I’ve spent two hours or more preparing for a one-hour problem conversation, or have spent two hours, sometimes more, helping a supervisor prepare to talk with her staff person.
By no means does it always take that long. But don’t cheat yourself out of the time you need.
Personally I think it’s easily worth and extra hour or two if I can take a relationship up to the next level and make a deep advocacy connection with someone who was maybe headed for trouble.
3. The stand comes first.
The advocacy-stand is not something to do as a technique. If you’re going to do it as a technique or a short cut or a finesse, then don’t do it. The hallmark of the advocacy-stand is authenticity. If it’s not authentic, then it’ll just make the staff person angry, and they’ll be right to be angry.
So once you’re clear about your feelings, you want to find the place in yourself where you can be a sincere advocate for this staff person in this conversation. If you can’t find that, then don’t try to have an advocacy conversation.
Either give yourself a couple more days. Or just go have a basic corrective conversation instead. Please don’t pretend to feel what you don’t really feel.
4. If you make a mistake, use it to deepen your connection.
If the staff person can feel it in her bones that you are her advocate, then she’ll likely forgive mistakes. Say you get triggered for a moment and use a judgmental phrase or two or three.
If the context of advocacy is really strong, the staff person may well let those slide right by. Might not even notice them.
It’s really important to do everything you can to keep judgment out of the conversation, but hey, we’re human, and one of the good things about the advocacy approach is that it gives you some cushion.
And if you catch yourself saying something judgmental, stop and apologize.
Suppose you say something like…
“During the strategy session, you were being a jerk. And I think that’s the reason we didn’t finalize an action plan.”
Okay, so it might be true that he was being a jerk and maybe that was the perfect word to describe his behavior.
But triggering words can be so hurtful. And incendiary. So managing your own feelings and being vigilant about sticking with non-judgmental language matters.
Still none of us is perfect, and if you slip, then I recommend that you pivot to relational language, which might sound like this…
“I’m sorry I said ‘jerk.’ That’s not fair. Let me just say what I saw. You put down every suggestion anyone made in the meeting. You didn’t help us move toward the goal.
“And here’s what’s in my heart about you. You’re good at strategy. We really needed you in that meeting.
“And I’m guessing that something apart from the meeting itself had you off balance.
“And I want you to be a success. You put so much of yourself into your work, you deserve that.
“And I love working with you and what I want most is for us to get back on the same page and be okay with each other. What do you need in order to make that happen?”
5. Call on the strengths of the staff person.
Remember, you’re not doing this conversation all by yourself. Someone else is in it too. Call on their goodwill. Call on their ability to help solve whatever it is you’re working on with them. Call them to play at the top of their game right here in this conversation.
They’re not helpless, they’re not a victim. They have strengths, they can do their part to make this work.
6. Start simple.
If you’re just starting to have direct conversations with staff, keep it simple. Just go for one simple step forward in each conversation. As you develop your skills, you’ll be able to do much more complex things with the advocacy approach.
7. Find the fun.
The advocacy approach is goodhearted. It makes for sweet conversations even about problems. So keep that in mind. Push through the daunting parts into the fun of creating a an enduring relationship.
Getting personal, but work personal
Next we see Riley, an executive director, meeting with one of his staff.
Riley: You know how you sometimes explode?
Carol: Huh?
Riley: That’s not a secret, is it?
Carol: No, that’s not a secret. What do you mean? Of course not. Everybody sees me do that. It’s just that sometimes I have to get extreme to get my point across.
Riley: Well, that’s what I want to talk with you about during this supervision meeting. But I want to do the opposite of supervision.
Carol: That sounds scary.
Riley: What I want to do is just understand. During this hour I promise I won’t ask you to do anything different than what you’re doing. I just want to ask what it’s like when you get triggered and what it’s like when you’re in the middle of an explosion. And what it’s like in the aftermath. Would you be willing to have that conversation with me?
Carol: That’s weird.
Riley: Yes, it is.
Carol: No one has ever asked me that before.
Riley: And?
Carol: Let me think about it for a minute.
Riley: Okay.
Carol: Why do you want to ask me those questions?
Riley: Because when you have an explosion I turn cold and step back from you and feel distant and I hate that. That’s not the relationship I want with you. So if you’re willing, I’d like to get the backstage view so I can understand what it’s like to be you in those moments.
Carol: What’s the alternative?
Riley: I give you a directive not to ever have any more explosions ever again when you’re here at work. It’s too hard on the staff. It creates an atmosphere of fear. And it’s contrary to the guidelines for our organizational culture.
Carol: That sounds harsh.
Riley: Wait a minute, the most important thing to remember is that people here really like you, or want to like you. But they’re scared of you exploding with no warning. That makes it hard to be friends with you. Staff have told me how upset they are about the explosions, but not one person has trashed you.
Carol: Wow. I didn’t realize I was having that kind of impact on people.
Riley: I kind of thought maybe you didn’t.
Carol: I really didn’t. What should I do to fix this?
Riley: I could just tell you to stop. Or you could tell yourself to stop. But I don’t want to handle it that way.
Carol: So what should we do?
Riley: I would like for you to tell me what it’s like being you before, during, and after an explosion. I’m betting that there’s a simple answer to this and that we’ll hear it if you just start talking and say what’s true for you.
Carol: I feel embarrassed.
Riley: I understand. I’ve got my own issues that embarrass me.
Carol: I never know when my explosions are coming so they scare me, too.
Riley: This morning when you started yelling at Nora, do you know what triggered you?
Carol: I usually feel like I’m in a fog when the triggering happens.
Riley: Take a moment, close your eyes if you want, feel your way back there.
Carol: Hmm. I was feeling stupid. I wrote up the report on diabetes prevention based on the data she gave me, and she wasn’t happy with it. There was an edge to her voice, like, “You dummy.” So I blasted her. I wrote exactly what I thought she wanted and it turned out it wasn’t what she wanted at all. I didn’t want the problem put on me so I laid it back on her. Hard.
Riley: And how does that feel now?
Carol: Terrible. Blasting someone over a report, even I know that’s dumb.
Riley: Dumb?
Carol: Dumb and helpless. If someone thinks I’m stupid it makes me feel helpless. Family dynamics. Do we need to go into that?
Riley: No. But think for a moment about who you really are, the Carol everyone around here wants to like, the Carol you want to be. How would she have handled this?
Carol: Oh, god, she would have been…really smart.
Riley: Meaning?
Carol: She would have asked a whole lot of questions right at the beginning of the assignment. We weren’t clear with each other. I could have known what Nora wanted if I had just gotten her to stop long enough to go through it in detail.
Riley: So, what about smart?
Carol: I really do believe I have a lot of smarts. What if I could use my smarts to stop feeling stupid so I don’t blow up?
Riley: What if?
Carol: Well, I really want that. But right now, I need to go find Nora and apologize and tell her what went wrong and talk with her about the report that’s coming up next month so I can do it right this time.
Riley: Cool.
Carol: And then can I come back tomorrow and you can ask me more questions? Do you have the time?
Riley: I’ll make the time. This is important to me. You’re important to me.
Carol: Okay, I’m getting out of here. I’m feeling shy all of a sudden.
Of course, if advocacy fails, a supervisor always has the right to switch back to correction. But when you call forth the best in someone, when you challenge her to step up, she might be inspired to fix the problem herself, which makes your life easier and the relationship stronger.
Untangling a mess
Cadan is the ED, and he sees Sierra screwing up but he’s her fan and he knows this is just a matter of something she’s not seeing, and once she gets it she’s going to be golden again.
Sierra: Arrrggh!
Cadan: Arrrggh?
Sierra: I’m so frustrated.
Cadan: About…
Sierra: About how my staff keep coming to you to get their questions answered. I want you to quit talking to them. How do you expect me to be their supervisor if they’re always going over my head? Send them back to me.
Cadan: I can do that, but what if that’s not enough.
Sierra: Okay, now I’m really frustrated. Why wouldn’t that be enough?
Cadan: Because I want you to win.
Sierra: You sure don’t act like it.
Cadan: I’m going to act like it right now. Why don’t they go directly to you?
Sierra: I don’t know.
Cadan: I want you to know. It matters that you know that so you can win.
Sierra: Okay, I know you want me to be a success. And I appreciate you giving me this promotion. But I really don’t get what I need to do to make this work.
Cadan: Not a problem.
Sierra: Why do you say that?
Cadan: Because I believe in you and I believe that if we relax and unwind and talk this through, we’re going to find the answer.
Sierra: Okay, I’d like to do that. Do you have time now?
Cadan: Yes, I do.
Sierra: Where do we start?
Cadan: When you stepped up to your new position, your peers suddenly became people you supervise. So how’s it going in terms of developing this new relationship with them?
Sierra: Well, I’m letting things take their course.
Cadan: Which means?
Sierra: I don’t want to pressure them. After their negative experience with Ralph being on their case all the time, I don’t want to be bossy. I don’t want to step into his shoes.
Cadan: I appreciate that because we don’t need another Ralph. What else?
Sierra: That’s it really. I figured I’d let them take whatever time they need to get used to me being their supervisor. I try my best not to bother them. They’re good staff.
Cadan: Not bothering them means…
Sierra: I stay in my office a lot and cheer them on sometimes when there’s a clear opening for that.
Cadan: Do you know what they say when they come to me? They don’t want to bother you. They never have one bad thing to say about you. They just don’t want to bother you. But they don’t mind bothering me.
Sierra: Well, you’re just like that. Everyone knows they can always talk to you.
Cadan: That’s something I’ve done on purpose, create that sense of welcome.
Sierra: Oh. And I’m sitting in my office with the door closed. Uh-oh.
Cadan: Uh-oh?
Sierra: I think I’m screwing up.
Cadan: I think you’re learning. Stepping into leadership like you’re doing is a big deal. You know, all of a sudden I’m thinking about how much you love salsa dancing.
Sierra: What’s that got to do with it?
Cadan: What do you want in a leader when you’re on the dance floor?
Sierra: Oh, I see where you’re going with this. I want someone who is clear and definite and direct and yet is very attentive to me. So are you saying that’s what my staff wants from me?
Cadan: What’s your best guess?
Sierra: If anyone tried leading salsa like I’m running my department it would be a disaster. Oh, I’m so sorry. My staff are so eager and I’m abandoning them. That’s not right. And I want to apologize to you. I’m failing the trust you put in me.
Cadan: Want to know what I’m thinking?
Sierra: Okay.
Cadan: I’m thinking I’m so glad that I promoted you because you’re the kind of person who takes her staff to heart like this. That’s what I want in a department head.
Sierra: So what do I do about this?
Cadan: Are you going dancing this week?
Sierra: Yes, Tuesday and Thursday, as always.
Cadan: Are there any guys who will trade with you, be the follower so you can be the leader? Years ago when I took lessons, I used to switch like that. It was a trip to be the follower and get a feel for the other side of it.
What would it be like for you to get the feel of being the leader on the dance floor and the come back here do that with your staff?
Sierra: Yes! I can do that. I’ve got guy friends who’d get a kick out of helping me out with this. They’d be glad to let me try out leading and give me their best tips.
Cadan: Cool.
Sierra: But Ralph was so overbearing. I don’t want to do that to my staff.
Cadan: I know that’s really important to you. It makes sense that you’re worried about that. But I want you to have faith in yourself. Faith that you know how to find what the right touch is for each of your staff.
Sierra: I’ve danced with so many guys, I know the difference between too much and not enough. I know what’s just right for me. Okay. No excuses, then, I can figure out what each of my staff needs. I can get this.
Cadan: Okay.
Sierra: I’m going to go start bothering my staff.
Cadan: What does that mean?
Sierra: I’m going to stick my nose in their business. I’m going to start checking in with each of them, at the beginning of the day and the end of the day. Make sure they’re getting what they need. Since there are only five of them, I can do that easily.
In the meantime, you have my permission to keep talking with them if they come to you.
Cadan: Really?
Sierra: Yes. Because in three weeks no one’s going to be coming to you anymore. I’m going to win them over.
I’m going to open my door. I’m going to make sure they know I’m interested in every one of their questions. That’s how I’m going to solve this.
Cadan: What are you noticing about yourself as a leader right now?
Sierra: For the first time I feel like I’m actually taking the reins of my department.
Cadan: Yes, I’m looking at you and seeing a leader. That department has been through a very hard time and they need someone now who can bring them back from that and take them to greatness. They really can be great.
Sierra: I see that. I know that.
Cadan: So who are you really?
Sierra: I’m a leader, but I’ve been wearing a disguise. Now I’m taking off the disguise.
And now for something a little more challenging
Next, Pia, the ED, does something a little risky with Ted. She does a reverse. But because he can feel her advocacy for him, it works.
Pia: Hey, Ted, we’re not going to do supervision today.
Ted: We’re not? What’s up?
Pia: I want you to teach me.
Ted; Teach you what?
Pia: The bulldozer thing.
Ted: Huh?
Pia: You know the president of our coalition?
Ted; Oh, yeh, Jerry. I’ve been unhappy about him for the past two months. The gossip network is pinging and zinging. The people I’ve talked to are not happy either.
Pia: Yeh, he’s a bulldozer and guess who he’s set his sights on?
Ted: Uh-oh. Us? He’s just jealous because we’re so good at what we do. We’re who everyone looks to for guidance.
Pia: I’m feeling really urgent about learning how to deal with bulldozing. And you, when you’re in one of your bulldozing moods, you’re really, really good at it.
Ted: I’m not sure that’s a compliment.
Pia: I don’t quite know what it is. Maybe just a fact. And I do want it to stop. It’s too hard on all of us. But that’s a discussion for another day. Right now I want to know how to deal with Jerry. And you’re the expert. I’m not. I’m always too far over on the side of being nice.
Ted: That’s for sure.
Pia: So what do I do? And here’s the thing. I don’t want to play dueling dozers. I don’t want to have to become Jerry to stop him. I want to know how to pull the rug out from under his tough guy behavior. I think he’s got an awful lot to give the coalition, but if he doesn’t make a change pretty fast, I’m worried people are going to start dropping out.
Ted: Okay, well here’s one way to look at bullies. Half of them are scared and just trying to make you more scared than they are. And the other half are testing you to see how much they can get away with. Which do you think it is with Jerry?
Pia: My best guess is that it’s the second one with a soupçon of the first. So let’s pretend I’ve hired you as the coalition’s consultant, what would you tell us?
Ted: Oh, that’s easy. The first gambit for a bully would be to dominate you one by one like divide and conquer. So you all need to go to him together and tell him what kind of behavior you expect from him or else he can’t be your president this year.
Pia: That seems to be the one thing people in our coalition don’t want to do. They don’t like confrontation.
Ted: Well, what’s at stake?
Pia: A lot, an awful lot.
Ted: Well, then, this is a chance for people to learn something new about standing up for their mission—and for themselves.
Pia: It sure is. And that would be good for us even if we didn’t have the Jerry problem. If I got people together would you be willing to come help us organize our strategy and then go with us to talk with Jerry?
Ted: Yeh, I would. I like stuff like that.
Pia: So here’s what I need to know, though. How do you take a stand without bulldozing? What’s the difference?
Ted: Well, we’d have the power if we’re all together so we wouldn’t need to bulldoze. I can help you get people into that mindset.
Pia: Okay, this is cool. I want you to work with me on this. And then sometime I’d like to have another conversation with you about you and this organization.
Ted: I could see that coming. This is pretty darned slick of you to get me to help you with the very thing you want me to change in my behavior.
Pia: I thought so, too. But you know what? I’m really serious about this. We do need your help. You really can make a difference for the coalition.
Ted: I know you’re sincere. And I appreciate you asking me for my help instead of just coming down on me. See, the thing is that I’m used to getting my way. That’s how it’s always been. If I’m not getting what I want I get impatient and then I get pushy. That’s why Jillian broke up with me, because I did that kind of stuff to her.
Pia: Oh, that’s why. I thought the two of you were doing great together.
Ted; We were, we still should be, but I blew it.
Pia: I’m so sorry to hear that.
Ted: So I guess maybe it’s time for me to pull up my socks and get this thing figured out. I really like everyone here. And I do want to have a good relationship with people. If you’re willing, I’ll agree to start talking about this in supervision.
Pia: I’m willing. I’d be glad to team up with you on this.
Ted: And one more thing. Do you happen to have any tips on apologizing to someone you love? I mean the kind of deep apology that might win her back?
Pia: Oh, yeh, I do know something about that…
Setting up a coaching agreement with someone who’s reluctant
How do you introduce the idea of doing something more than typical supervision? Here’s Coral, the ED, talking with her staff person Kevin.
Coral: Hi, Kevin. I wanted to ask you today if you want to try the coaching that I’m offering to each of my direct reports. It’s up to you.
Kevin: I haven’t made up my mind, but I’d probably rather not.
Coral: May I ask what you’ve been thinking about it?
Kevin: I don’t think it’s my kind of thing.
Coral: Because…
Kevin: Because when I’m in the lunch room with Gloria, Maddie, and Kate, and I hear them talking about the coaching they’re doing with you, it sounds so intense and personal and I’m more of a private person. I only talk like that at night with Mary when I’m at home.
Coral: The coaching is optional. You don’t have to do it.
Kevin: But do you really mean that?
Coral: I do and here’s why. Forced coaching isn’t coaching. Coaching doesn’t work that way. It can’t. So yes, I really mean it. But I’m wondering if you’d be willing to talk with me for a few minutes about coaching anyway, because if it’s something that would work for you, I don’t want you to miss out on it.
Kevin: I can spare a few minutes.
Coral: The thing about coaching is that you can design it to be what you need it to be. It’s not one set thing and everybody does it the same.
Kevin: Okay. I know that if I have to do it the way Gloria does it I’m going to flunk and I really don’t like failing.
Coral: You absolutely don’t have to do it Gloria’s way. If you decided to try coaching with me, the first thing we’d do is find your way of doing it.
Kevin: That sounds all right, but what’s the difference between supervision and coaching? I don’t understand why we can’t do what we’ve been doing in these meetings all along.
Coral: Coaching gives you something extra. I see it like this. Coaching is a way for people to claim their personal moxie and be more powerful in their work. And get more satisfaction because they’re being more effective.
Kevin: Well, I always like being effective. That’s a big value of mine.
Coral: I know it is. That’s one of the reasons I’m so glad you’re here on this team. Did you know that when I offer people coaching, it’s not a corrective thing? It’s a bonus.
Kevin: So when you tell me I need coaching, it’s not like I’m doing something wrong?
Coral: Oh, no. Exactly the opposite. I really count on you. I know that in every part of your job you give it your all. I know if there are ever problems that you’re going to come tell me about them right away. I really mean it, coaching is a bonus.
Kevin: Well, I like how we use this supervision time.
Coral: Yes, me, too. And maybe you’ve noticed that we mostly talk about how-tos.
Kevin: Hmmm. Yes, that’s true.
Coral: Well, coaching gets a bit more personal, but not in a therapy way.
Kevin: I definitely don’t want to do therapy stuff. I tried that once and it just made me feel worse. The guy was obsessed with the abuse and all the bad stuff that happened when I was a kid. But I was ready to move forward. I wanted a life. Which is what I’ve got now with Mary. Well, and with the work I do here, too.
Coral: I’m sorry that that therapist did not pay attention to what you needed. The idea of coaching is to get you what you need so you can move forward in your work. And we don’t go into past troubles. We don’t get personal in that way.
Kevin: What exactly do we do?
Coral: We get personal in terms of your strengths and in terms of what’s possible for you going forward.
Kevin: Like how?
Coral: Well, for example, what’s a challenge that you’re facing right now?
Kevin: Oh, that’s easy. It’s our subcontract with Mack’s program. He’s always trying to get away with the minimum of work while claiming the maximum of credit. I’ve had five serious talks with him and nothing changes. Maybe you could coach him instead of me.
Coral: Maybe it’s time to call the question with Mack. The subcontract ends in four months. What if you told him that we’re not renewing it unless things change.
Kevin: That would be radical. I don’t know if I’m ready to have that conversation. He’s a pretty tough character.
Coral: Say for a moment that we decided to call the question. Supervision would mean that I’d brainstorm how-tos with you. And coaching would mean that I’d do that and I’d talk with you about your personal strengths and which ones of them you could bring to a decisive conversation with Mack.
Kevin: Like?
Coral: I know you actually have a good basic ability to take a stand for yourself.
Kevin: How do you see that?
Coral: I see it right now in this conversation. You are not just agreeing to coaching because I’m proposing it. You’re not being a nice guy trying to please me. You’re paying attention to what you need and what’s true for you. So we’re having a genuine negotiation right now about coaching.
Kevin: Okay, I see that.
Coral: So we’d look at your strengths in this conversation and how you take those into a conversation with Mack.
Kevin: I’d need to ramp up my strengths a good bit to deal with him.
Coral: If that’s what you wanted to do, then we could design your coaching to do that. You know, the couple times you’ve talked about what you went through as a kid, I’ve been so impressed with how you’ve put a life together for yourself.
Kevin: Yeh, it’s been quite a journey.
Coral: And I wonder if there’s something from that experience that’s one of the reasons you have such instant empathy with our clients. You do know that you work some kind of special magic with them, don’t you?
Kevin: Well, yeh, they seem to like me a lot.
Coral: And they really listen to you. So coaching is like that. It’s like being in the import business.
Kevin: Import business?!
Coral: Un-huh. You take strengths from one area of your life and bring them over to another area. And sometimes, yes, you ramp them up. When you think about the situation with Mack, and if you could have it work out any way you want, what would that be?
Kevin: I’d really like to be done with him. I’ve been getting to know Janey and her organization. I was over there the other day for a meeting and I was impressed. Her staff are much younger, they have a lot less experience than Mack and his crew, but they’ve got heart. If I could just wave a magic wand I’d have them handling the subcontract, not Mack.
Coral: And what would it take for you to do that transfer? Who would you have to be?
Kevin: I’d have to be me only double strength.
Coral: And how would that be for you?
Kevin: I’d like it a lot. You know there are lots of times when I feel like I’m holding myself in check. I wish I didn’t do that.
Coral: If you wanted to do coaching, you could make that your agenda. And I’d be glad to work on that with you. I’m a big fan of yours and I sometimes get the sense that there’s much more to you than what we’ve seen so far. And what we’ve seen is really good. You don’t have to do more than what you’ve been doing. But if you want to…
Kevin: I want to. So I guess I just signed up for coaching.
Coral: Worse than that. You’ve already been doing coaching because this is a coaching kind of conversation we’ve been having.
Kevin: Oh, well, then I guess it’s not so bad.
Coral: What about this? What if we decided to just continue having this conversation? I like your idea about transferring the subcontract. I’ve been hearing good things about Janey, too, since she took over at the service center. Really good things. I would love for you to negotiate the transfer.
But what if we set this up so you have fun doing it?
Kevin: Fun?!
Coral: Yes, fun. Let’s look at all the pros and cons, but I really don’t want you to have to put up with crap from anyone. If we decide that Janey is the way to go, then what might the conversation with Mack sound like?
Kevin: Like “Goodbye!” That would be kind of fun. No more struggle, just business. Like the simple fact that the contract is over and we’ve chosen not to renew. And then I’ll tell him, “Your chickens have come home to roost, mister.”
Coral: I want to be there to see that!
Kevin: Just joking. I won’t say that, but I’ll sure be thinking it. Okay, you’re on. Let’s do this. I really am done with Mack. And I’m done with being the guy who puts up with guys who I don’t need to put up with.
